'I don't talk b*******' - Ryan Giggs and Nicky Butt give their view on big Manchester United debate

Ryan Giggs and Nicky Butt spoke openly about Ruben Amorim, Sir Jim Ratcliffe and where Man United are heading.

Ryan Giggs arrived at Victoria Warehouse in a sleek tuxedo on Thursday. It might have been 11 years since Giggs retired, but he looks on good terms with himself. "For about two minutes, yeah," Giggs laughed when he was asked whether he could help a struggling Manchester United.

The 51-year-old strolled over to speak to a few Manchester-based journalists ahead of the inaugural Foundation 92 gala dinner. The event, which raised £267,000, was held in the shadow of Old Trafford and Giggs was followed into the venue by charity co-founder Nicky Butt.

Both players spoke their minds on a range of topics and nothing was off the table. "First of all, on the pitch, it's not been great. I do like Ruben Amorim, I think he comes across well," said Giggs.

"I think he's got a tough job. I think it's a case of backing him and sticking with him. It might be a long time before we bring success back onto the pitch, but I believe what I've seen so far is that he's got a great chance [of achieving that] if he is backed, so hopefully he will be.

"I don't think he's shirked away. I don't think Amorim knew how difficult his job would be until he's actually gone into the job. He's remained positive. He's obviously had success.

"He knows what it takes to win leagues, to win games. So, yeah, I think the way that he's remained positive, he's called a few people out when it's needed. So he's got that charisma, he's got that personality, but he's also got that bit of steel as well. And he needs to be backed.

"Regarding the staff [redundancies ], I think... that's obviously tough to see. I think in some departments we've probably had too much staff, but at the same time it's making that... differentiating from where you need to cut, but also having that loyalty that people who've not only worked there but just love the club and have gone above and beyond over the years and have been there a long time."

Butt spoke to the Manchester Evening News for an exclusive interview in September and he said "only time will tell" whether Sir Jim Ratcliffe's changes at United would be successful.

Erik ten Hag was sacked a month later and Dan Ashworth was ruthlessly axed in December, so what has Butt thought about the last six months at the club?

"They've got rid of Dan Ashworth, which I thought was a strange one, having worked so hard to get him from Newcastle," he said.

"Obviously, he is a fantastic football person, but he didn't fit in with the other ones by the sounds of it, with Jason [Wilcox] and Omar [Berrada]. I think even if you got David Gill and Sir Alex back there, it's going to be a struggle for a long time. I think every single fan, which I consider myself one, has to understand we're at the bottom of the mountain and there's a massive, massive climb to get up to probably four or five clubs above them, not only on the pitch, but off the pitch as well."

Giggs admitted he never thought United would still be in a rut, 10 years after he worked on the coaching staff. "No, you don't [think that]," he said. "You're such a big club and we had such successful seasons for such a long time, you don't believe it. It does happen. It happened to us before we won the league, it happened to Liverpool, so it can happen and football always goes in cycles.

"But I think there's a lot of work to be done because of what's happened over those ten years. Recruitment-wise, there have been bad decisions both on and off the pitch, and there's a lot of work to be done. It's not great to see as someone who was there for so long and as a fan.

"I think there's been some harsh words and maybe truthful words being spoken over the last couple of months by Jim Ratcliffe and by Ruben Amorim, some of the statements he's come out with.

"Maybe it was needed. I don't think anyone's got a crystal ball to see what's going to happen in the future. It's going to be really interesting to see how it goes in the next 15 years."

United have gone 12 years without a Premier League title and it took Liverpool 30 years to return to the top of English football. “It could be. I don't think anyone's got a given right to go and win the Premier League," said Butt, admitting United might have to wait as long as their bitter rivals.

"It's got to be a structure, it's got to be a vision, it's got to be a journey that everyone goes on together, including the supporters. You get a bit peed off, if you like, which we all do.

"But if you look at when Sir Alex came in, how long it took him to get to the level that he wanted to over the years, and different managers before him, with a good owner in Martin Edwards.

"So I would never be naive to say it won't take that long because we're Man United, because big clubs like Man United have done it before, where they've had to wait so long. I hope not, but I wouldn't bet against it."

Cycling guru Sir Dave Brailsford has been given huge influence at the biggest football in England, despite having no prior experience in the sport. Brailsford famously introduced the 'marginal gains' concept to cycling in the early 2010s and has launched 'Mission21' at Old Trafford.

That means United are targeting winning the Premier League title for the club’s 150th anniversary in 2028. “Yeah, well, if I'm honest, I don't like talking b******* like," said Butt.

"To be fair, that ain't going to happen, there's a long way to go for that. What gets me is when people talk about getting to where they want to be - everyone expects other clubs to sit still.

"They're going to go forward as well, Newcastle, Liverpool will get better, City will definitely get better, Chelsea are getting better, Arsenal are getting better every year. And then obviously, there's lots of smaller clubs as well. Man United are going to have to go like that [straight up].

"And then other clubs are still going like that [upward trajectory], so it's not like they're standing still. So it's going to be a long way off, and the most important thing is starting on the right foot and hopefully get this season put to bed because it's been a disaster, and hopefully we get some plans in place for the stadium, get some new recruitment in, and give Ruben Amorim the right tools to try and at least get a decent team on the pitch.

"They haven't got the finances, they have to get their house in order, they have to be a proper football club that work to a design, work to an ethos, work to a recruitment drive of how to get players in and get them out for big money. And I think that both clubs you mentioned are doing an amazing job, especially Brentford, doing an amazing job of how to get players in from all over the world.

"They play well, keep them in the table and then sell them off for mega money and do it again and again and again. It's amazing what they do, but with all due respect, that's not what Man United should be.

"Man United should be up there challenging, but they're not. And I think it's a bit of looking at the way they do it, but doing it differently, if you know what I mean. I just think you have to have a plan and a project that you don't veer off and, over the years, Man United has looked like it's a plaster on a gaping wound, it doesn't work."

Giggs provided a more diplomatic answer about United's project to win the Premier League. "I honestly don't know," he said. "I think this time last year, you wouldn't believe City would have the season that they've had. It's really difficult. We do need lots and lots of players, but you never know. It could be a special player that comes along and just transforms everything and we no longer get injuries.

"We've got young players coming through. It can happen in a short space of time. You need a lot of things to go for you for that to happen, but it can happen. But equally, it can go, like we've seen with ourselves when we didn't win for 26 years and with Liverpool as well, so it can happen.

"I've said for a long time that we need young, hungry players who want to play for the club. But it's difficult. It's easy saying it, but it's difficult because I watched Wales Under-19s against England last night, and you're looking at some of the players and they're on £25,000 or £30,000 per week.

"They're Under-19s playing football in Bangor. Football is different these days and it's very hard to get back to where it used to be, where the top players get what they deserve, but the players who haven't quite got there yet but need to get there, they've got to earn it."

Giggs is the director of football at Salford and Butt recently stepped down from his role as their chief executive officer. He is keeping himself busy and doesn't want to sit on his "backside."

"I'm getting around to a few games, doing a bit of work at Burnley," explained Butt. "I'm consulting there a few days a week. It's just getting back into football. When I left United, I was a bit bitter for a good few months. I fell out of love with it and then realised I was missing it.

"It was a hole in my life where I was missing. I'm doing bits and bobs now. I just know I can't sit on my backside at home. I need to get back on the grass. It isn't about money. It's just getting back in. Whether it's working with young kids or older players, it's just fun to get back on the grass."

You can read more about Foundation 92 and their inaugural gala dinner here.